But that doesn't lessen or negate or alleviate of us responsibility for the bad thing that happened to them, no matter how unaware we might have been. This is the only path to relationship trust.
I agree with a lot of what you say here. But I have to take issue with #3: "I'm so sorry that happened to you..." Dude, that didn't “happen” to me - you did it. It didn't just happen that you loaned $7000 to your brother without talking to me about it. Getting rear-ended happens. You doing a thing - that didn't just happen. You did it. Own it. "I'm sorry that happened to you" is not an apology. Take a survey, see how many women think that's an apology.
I want to be careful how I say this as to not seem defensive or argumentative, which I promise I'm neither feeling or intending.
If we're operating under the premise that the things people do in relationships which result in pain/sadness/anger/stress/fear/etc for their partner are the result of blind spots, or accidents, or honestly not realizing how the other person was experiencing it... then my work is about eliminating blind spots. It's about learning how to see and feel and understand what's happening to the other person.
When one partner says "You did this bad thing to me!" when the other person's lived experience is something entirely different, I don't think we're going to see a lot of repair and shared understanding.
What I had to learn, and what most of my guys I work with have to learn is literally what happens to the other person in these scenarios that might not come close to our experience/reality/interpretation/emotional response, etc.
Repair and trust restoration will not happen if the person isn't owning how their actions resulted in a shit outcome for the other person. That's mandatory. Accountability is imperative.
The words I use to talk about mindfulness and empathy and shared understanding is "learning how to understand what happened to the other person."
I might have made you peanut butter cookies as a snack. But your experience as someone with a severe nut allergy is that I put you in harm's way.
Those are two radically different ways of framing a scenario, and more or less sums up why many couples who have conflict are fighting.
No one wants to fight. They're just really different experiences the two people are having.
Healthy relationships arise when both people do the work of understanding how these various situations are being experienced by someone else, even when it's different from their own.
THAT's why I use words like "I'm sorry that that happened to you." It's not supposed to be some weak, pussyfooted, half-assed apology.
Literally, we can't demonstrate understanding of the event unless I can articulate what happened to you.
"Holy shit. I gave you poison. How careless. I really was trying to make you cookies. I could have gotten you sick or worse. I'm so sorry that's what happened to you and that you couldn't trust me to not put you in that situation."
Your prerogative certainly to not accept it if the other person hasn't demonstrated remorse or trustworthiness to your satisfaction.
But this is why I use that language. Not for a crap apology. But because I want men who honestly don't get it to work harder at understanding their partner's different experiences from their own. Otherwise, no one's going to make it.
What I intend, and what happens to you when I do something, are not always the same thing.
And if I want you to trust me, I have to understand what happens to you, and not defend my intentions.
Agree 100%. Not an apology. “‘I’m so sorry something I did or said caused you pain or to feel betrayed or to feel like you can’t trust me….. “ is an apology.
So good, like always. Some men just don’t care to save their relationships of 25 years. Unfortunately, they see nothing wrong with what they are doing.
That leaving the hospital bit hits home. I did that. My male logical brain said "well if my wife has to be with this baby, and the baby is not going to sleep, at least I can grab a few hours so that I can be at my best the next day". Needless to say, it didn't go over too well. Luckily she didn't hold too much of a grudge.
I will say that this kind of thing is from radically changed expectations that would have been viewed as odd even a couple of generations ago, and looking at the disparate outcomes between say, my grandfather's generation and my own, it might be safe to say that these changed expectations might not be all for the good. It's important to draw boundaries with your spouse, the hard part is figuring out which boundaries and when. Any time your spouse feels bad doesn't necessarily mean that you are responsible for doing something differently. The failure to draw boundaries opens the relationship up to manipulation, even where it wasn't present before.
Wow. In your dad's day and granddad's day, their babies would have been cared for in a nursery while their wives, who had just given birth, had an opportunity to recover slightly between breastfeeding every few hours. Now, a baby stays in the room with the recovering mother.
The hospital and insurance industries consider childbirth a medical procedure and bill women accordingly. However, everyone else, apparently dads included, assume childbirth is a quick sneeze, a non-physical event and are quick to leave mom alone with the baby as soon as possible to enforce good boundaries. Just wow.
Hey Matt,
I agree with a lot of what you say here. But I have to take issue with #3: "I'm so sorry that happened to you..." Dude, that didn't “happen” to me - you did it. It didn't just happen that you loaned $7000 to your brother without talking to me about it. Getting rear-ended happens. You doing a thing - that didn't just happen. You did it. Own it. "I'm sorry that happened to you" is not an apology. Take a survey, see how many women think that's an apology.
Rosie
I want to be careful how I say this as to not seem defensive or argumentative, which I promise I'm neither feeling or intending.
If we're operating under the premise that the things people do in relationships which result in pain/sadness/anger/stress/fear/etc for their partner are the result of blind spots, or accidents, or honestly not realizing how the other person was experiencing it... then my work is about eliminating blind spots. It's about learning how to see and feel and understand what's happening to the other person.
When one partner says "You did this bad thing to me!" when the other person's lived experience is something entirely different, I don't think we're going to see a lot of repair and shared understanding.
What I had to learn, and what most of my guys I work with have to learn is literally what happens to the other person in these scenarios that might not come close to our experience/reality/interpretation/emotional response, etc.
Repair and trust restoration will not happen if the person isn't owning how their actions resulted in a shit outcome for the other person. That's mandatory. Accountability is imperative.
The words I use to talk about mindfulness and empathy and shared understanding is "learning how to understand what happened to the other person."
I might have made you peanut butter cookies as a snack. But your experience as someone with a severe nut allergy is that I put you in harm's way.
Those are two radically different ways of framing a scenario, and more or less sums up why many couples who have conflict are fighting.
No one wants to fight. They're just really different experiences the two people are having.
Healthy relationships arise when both people do the work of understanding how these various situations are being experienced by someone else, even when it's different from their own.
THAT's why I use words like "I'm sorry that that happened to you." It's not supposed to be some weak, pussyfooted, half-assed apology.
Literally, we can't demonstrate understanding of the event unless I can articulate what happened to you.
"Holy shit. I gave you poison. How careless. I really was trying to make you cookies. I could have gotten you sick or worse. I'm so sorry that's what happened to you and that you couldn't trust me to not put you in that situation."
Your prerogative certainly to not accept it if the other person hasn't demonstrated remorse or trustworthiness to your satisfaction.
But this is why I use that language. Not for a crap apology. But because I want men who honestly don't get it to work harder at understanding their partner's different experiences from their own. Otherwise, no one's going to make it.
What I intend, and what happens to you when I do something, are not always the same thing.
And if I want you to trust me, I have to understand what happens to you, and not defend my intentions.
Agree 100%. Not an apology. “‘I’m so sorry something I did or said caused you pain or to feel betrayed or to feel like you can’t trust me….. “ is an apology.
So good, like always. Some men just don’t care to save their relationships of 25 years. Unfortunately, they see nothing wrong with what they are doing.
And when this 'work' creates a situation that fosters manipulation?
If you can’t trust your partner to act in your best interest and care about you, I would suggest exiting the relationship.
Manipulation can’t be on the table if the aim is trust.
Spot on. Manufactured outrage and grievances are the end result.
Good stuff.
That leaving the hospital bit hits home. I did that. My male logical brain said "well if my wife has to be with this baby, and the baby is not going to sleep, at least I can grab a few hours so that I can be at my best the next day". Needless to say, it didn't go over too well. Luckily she didn't hold too much of a grudge.
I will say that this kind of thing is from radically changed expectations that would have been viewed as odd even a couple of generations ago, and looking at the disparate outcomes between say, my grandfather's generation and my own, it might be safe to say that these changed expectations might not be all for the good. It's important to draw boundaries with your spouse, the hard part is figuring out which boundaries and when. Any time your spouse feels bad doesn't necessarily mean that you are responsible for doing something differently. The failure to draw boundaries opens the relationship up to manipulation, even where it wasn't present before.
Wow. In your dad's day and granddad's day, their babies would have been cared for in a nursery while their wives, who had just given birth, had an opportunity to recover slightly between breastfeeding every few hours. Now, a baby stays in the room with the recovering mother.
The hospital and insurance industries consider childbirth a medical procedure and bill women accordingly. However, everyone else, apparently dads included, assume childbirth is a quick sneeze, a non-physical event and are quick to leave mom alone with the baby as soon as possible to enforce good boundaries. Just wow.