69 yr old Cis female in a previously passionate, now fizzling, 3 yr. relationship .
You nailed it.
All of the micro disappointments, forgotten follow thrus, disinterest in my lived experiences. The consistent reset back to his experiences.
I am the Invisible Woman placed on Earth to serve you. My needs will only be met when in alignment with yours. I am meant to be the ultimate life style accessory and no more.
Here is what I have learned:
Very few people can handle being held accountable for their behavior without rationalizing, blaming, or shutting down.
I'm sorry, Lisa. Thank you for sharing this and for the positive feedback, because these ideas are so important to understand for all of the confused people out there who haven't learned why their relationships and marriages are suffering. Wishing you peace and clarity in your relationship, or in the months and years ahead should you choose a different path.
lol not fond of them either - let’s just say I have no need to include an “other” in my personal space male or female, cat or dog, into my life experience on a daily basis - walk by chats are sufficient and I dare say necessary
Women undermine their men, as well.. Women can also falsely accuse a man, and have him evicted from the home without due process of law. The author has chosen to disregard the other side of the same coin.
Centuries worth of literature have revolved around "what women do that disappoints men." I grew up thinking that women were mostly to blame for familial and social conflicts, and held onto this belief until I found myself ... uh, in a relationship with a man 20 years older than me who blamed his ex-wife for having ruined their marriage and accused me (19) of being inadequately supportive of him as he grieved him marriage. (Why am I responding to you, tho- your bio says you're a proud "non-feminist" lol)
Good idea. But you can on Youtube now and look for "The Happy Wife School". She encourages women to fix their own unhappiness, instead of blaming it on their man. Once that happens, they will be eager to sleep with their husbands
The issue is our culture tells us that our sense of lack will disappear if only we get the right relationship , experience, identity (made up reductive concepts like cis gender! ) , object or substance. That there is something out there that will make us feel ok inside. It’s a lie and sets everyone up for huge dissatisfaction and an arms race of mutual dissatisfaction.
many (not all) women are conditioned to base much of their behaviour on what men appear to like, so yeah, I think there's an 89% chance she has asked her husband this question
Let's be honest about what we're missing in these conversations. When women work through abuse and relationship drama, we must confront an uncomfortable reality - these issues are predominantly caused by men. If not her husband, then other men in positions of power, trust, or influence.
The reflexive intellectualization of women's trauma serves a purpose. By abstracting their experiences into theoretical problems, men conveniently:
Distance themselves from responsibility
Avoid examining their own behavior patterns
Escape the discomfort of recognizing systemic harm
Maintain comfortable perspectives that benefit them
Preserve the status quo while appearing thoughtful
This selective analysis - choosing which parts of reality to examine while ignoring uncomfortable systemic patterns - is precisely how patriarchy maintains itself generation after generation.
The true test of intellectual integrity isn't clever rationalization that preserves your comfort. It's the courage to see complete patterns, especially when they implicate systems you benefit from.
When you respond to women's experiences by intellectualizing rather than recognizing patterns, you're not being rational. You're being selectively blind in ways that conveniently maintain your power. True wisdom requires seeing the whole system, not just the parts that don't threaten your worldview.
I couldn't agree more! Many men hide behind the rationality smoke and mirror because their emotional intelligence is still at elementary level. They also tend to care more about what other men think, rather than the women in their lives. The male ego still reigns supreme. What men don't understand is that after years of being subjected to misogyny it's only natural for women to be angry, and by belittling their feelings they're making things worse. Misogyny is rooted in religion as well. Lilith gets booted out of paradise because she is her true, wild, untamed self and won't submit to Adam. Then Eve is made from a male body in the hope of making her compliant. Eve asks important questions and is punishment by a vengeful god. The ancient serpent of wisdom has been turned into a demon. Pure misogyny!
I (Ahmie) am a Sociologist and a BoyMom 5 times over (my sons are ages 8-20, 3 academic years between each), and you hit this out of the ballpark from my observations as a social scientist and a mother. My sons are all very liberal, Progressive, embracing of intersectionality (which they had fed into their awareness literally while nursing at my breast - I started working on my Master's when my secondborn was still breastfeeding, got pregnant with my third during orientation week, and my fourth was still exclusively breastfeeding on graduation day), and STILL the ones who are pubescent or older exhibit every single issue you point out under the "men conveniently" heading multiple times per week. I point out that youth is the time for them to practice relationship skills with the few people who will give them abundant grace as they learn to do better, and also that my patience is NOT infinite and that they should NOT expect a person in their life who did not give birth to them to tolerate their behaving in these ways for a significant duration of time without abandoning the relationship. When their father (my life partner of 29 years) turns away from validating my experience as a woman, it gets even worse and my job as a parent gets harder. Working on that is why we're subscribers to Matt's content.
If your sons are falsely accused of rape - and about half of rape accusations are false - your eyes will be opened to the real world. And so will your son's eyes.
Sorry for the belated reply, been busy living an actually awe-inspiring life instead of dwelling in bitterness and resentment.
If my sons are falsely accused of rape, that is beyond our ability to control. What IS within our ability to control is how we comport ourselves publicly and privately. Some of that affects how likely we are to be accused of crimes, and the likelihood of false accusations having ability to harm us.
If we focus on our commitment to having behavior patterns - publicly and privately - that are antithetical to criminal or abusive behaviors then false allegations have less sticking power if/when they come AND we have the ability to legally seek relief for the defamation of our characters.
I haven't been accused of anything as significant as rape, but my character has been defamed pretty significantly. It hurt, and it was a major distraction from what I would have rather have been doing with my time for a while, but it did not ultimately harm my reputation or character in the eyes of those whose opinions actually matter in the grand scheme of things.
THAT is the reality I am trying to prepare my sons to face as they emerge into adulthood, because that is within my spheres of influence and partial control. Is continuing to dwell in the hurt & resentment from wrongs done to you in the past under YOUR control? Can you find what is truly worth learning & holding from that then let the rest become compost while you tend the garden of your life in nourishing ways instead of just cussing at the weeds?
40-60% of rape accusations ate false. For the sake of your sons, try speaking up for men’s issues, and the difficulties they experience in feminist-driven courts that make defense against false accusations difficult.
So you just like to ignore false accusations? The research has found that about HALF of rape accusations are false. Take the total number of reported rapes, divide by 2, and you have the number of false accusations against men.
Why be defensive about it? You can be a good guy who has experienced shitty things due to the actions of a woman AND a great many women can have experienced painful things because of men.
All of that can happen at the same time and not cancel each other out.
How about we care about everyone who experiences mistreatment?
And whether you believe it’s true or not, or fair or not, men on the whole demonstrate poor relational skills that result in negative outcomes for women/children/families at a pretty high percentage.
Isn’t it okay to talk about that even if some women do bad things sometimes?
It's because men can't even get dates nowadays. The article even blames men for choosing shitty women while being silent on women choosing men who, which is also part of the same school of attachment theory you use, exactly replicate home dysfunction.
The traits that would make for a stable relationship from a man's position are the ones being selected against. So this article once again becomes shaming the men who are already lonely while doing nothing about women choosing men who are attractive and chaotic. Enough, the dog called "most men" has had enough beating.
You care about everyone that experiences mistreatment by changing the Violence Against Women Act to Intimate Partners Protection Act. Feminists ran with the fraud that only men were domestic abusers, when the research of Straus Steinmetz and Gelles found that women batter men as often as the converse.
Frank, I've seen several of your comments on Matt's content and there's a pattern I'm picking up. You're getting "ratioed." Even though there are several men reading these threads, none of them are liking your content or agreeing with you. You get no "likes," and only a few replies from people who don't just dismissively scroll past. If you're coming to Matt's content for wholehearted reasons to improve your relationships instead of for some kind of righteousness ego feed, perhaps reflect on how your tone is mismatching his or direct your time and attention elsewhere that might be more fulfilling if you don't see the value in what Matt and others are sharing here. (Ahmie)
Many men haven't yet woken up to the frauds of feminism. Go read the Straus, Steinmetz, and Gelles research findings which found that women batter men as often as the converse, Did you know that feminists made death threats against the three? Now you do.
As for the men that haven't yet been red-pilled...just give them a little more time. After they have dealt with man-hating feminists in HR that openly discriminate against men, or learn that there is vastly more funding for breast cancer than prostate cancer, or get thrown in jail after their girlfriend busts their nose.....they will get it then.
You can keep seeking validation of your confirmation bias logical falacies, or you can spend some effort developing more emotional maturity. What you cannot do is dictate how I am going to use my time, or demand attention/affection from others you find appealing just because you feel entitled to it. that isn't gendered, it is adulting and there is no pill color associated with it.
Women batter men as often as the converse. Those findings go back to the 1970s, starting with Straus, Steinmetz and Gelles. The media has covered up that information for the last 50 years. And, feminists made death threats against the three sociologists to try to silence them.
I wasn't aware of blaming men for everything, nor is that my intent. It's not about 'blame'. It's about accountability. And in this conversation, there is a stack of research showing it is predominantly men. And as long as a man says 'It's not all on men', he won't self-reflect where it could be him.
Also, your comments are unhelpful and point the way to the experiences of many women.
Yes, women do damage to men. And this thread is not about that.
Respond to my other comment, Frank, if you want to have an adult conversation instead of trolling all over. You’re not doing your red-pill side any favors.
Ask the thousands of men I’ve talked to in my coaching and groups every week if I demonize men or “blame” them.
It’s okay for you to feel bad and be mad. It doesn’t make OTHER true things invalid or somehow tainted by feminist research studies.
Frank. This isn’t debatable. Men (numerically speaking as a percentage) demonstrate poor relationship skills which result in a lot of damage to relationships, marriage, and families.
When we start getting into the REALLY ugly stuff like rape, violence, etc, it skews the numbers even worse.
Don’t be weird about this. Other men behaving poorly doesn’t make you a bad person, and doesn’t necessarily prove correct whichever ex wife or girlfriend hurt you so much.
Matthew, are you aware of the research that has found that women batter men as often as the converse? That research goes back to the mid-1970s, starting with the findings of Suzanne Steinmetz, Murray Straus and Richard Gelles. After publishing their findings, the three research sociologists recieved death threats from feminists. So it seems that women have poor relationship skills as often as men do.
My aim to help people have the best possible, most secure relationships capable of lasting a lifetime. It requires two people behaving in ways that foster trust and security and connection with one another.
You don’t have to be of ill character or even do anything “bad” in order for trust to erode between two people.
Everyone is responsible. Everyone.
Of course some women are shithouse relationship partners. But we can’t be talking about physical abuse. OF COURSE that’s abhorrent and borderline unforgivable in relationships. No one should be subject to violence from the people they love.
Relationship conversations in my world don’t revolve around overt abuse, which everyone should agree won’t be tolerated in healthy relationships.
I’m more interested in the nuanced conversations where non-abusers accidentally hurt one another.
In my experience, men do the hurting more often than the their female counterparts. Like 70-80 percent of the time.
We just have to be willing to engage in serious conversations around things that might not appear serious to you and I.
Like the merits of the toilet seat being left up or the dish left by the sink, and whether that’s worthy of people taking seriously and arguing about in their marriages.
Men are more likely to hide their mental illness and deny emotional regulation challenges because our society pressures them to not show perceived weakness. It’s the flip side to the stereotyping about women being prone to moodiness or hysteria. Taking an accurate statistical study of which genders have what frequency of these things is extremely difficult, particularly when about half the populace are unwilling or unable to adequately acknowledge or express their emotional states. Also, those added challenges listed as reasons women might have more frequent mental illnesses or moodiness can also be used to evidence a greater capacity to cope with those challenges that otherwise more harshly impact people who aren’t subject to them. It’s not that we ever lack justification for emotional responses. It’s that people/society views them on a different scale. Systemic misogyny and sexism is systemic. It permeates everything. They should first ask what each person’s definition of mental illness or extreme emotional distress actually is, and what it looks like. Determine if they are even communicating with the same emotional language before taking their self-assessments as accurate for the sake of a statistical analysis. Half the people I know, who are diagnosed with a mental illness, and medicated, don’t really seem as though they are unique in their struggles. Much of it is circumstantial, but also much of it is their interpretation of what society (not medical professionals) defines those terms to mean.
Trust is the baseline for all healthy intimate relationships. Communicating emotions effectively is necessary to maintain them. It’s that simple.
Hey Matthew, this is so great. And then there’s the research from Gottman showing that men are emotional, called ‘flooding’, but deny it’s happening, even to themselves. So as the man gets more ‘logical’ in an argument, it means he’s more flooded and is highly reactive, but thinks he’s the calm one.
Crazy making for the woman, feeling emotional, and knowing the topic is emotional, and he treats it like a logistical exercise in math and logic.
Also, you were on my podcast a while back. I still remember that convo! Trust you’re well!
I remember Remi! I quote you saying "intention does not equal experience" several times per week. Big heart emojis to you. I hope you and your team and your loved ones are very well!
Women’s NORMAL response of anger or distance to continued invalidation, dismissal and abuse (verbal & physical) by their partners is pathologized by ‘rational’ men. The unwillingness to be held accountable for how your behavior affects others is at the center of women’s resentment. The disparity of effort from men vs women is extreme. In my last relationship I was his therapist, self esteem booster, logistical manager, sex object, personal trainer, relationship caretaker, girlfriend prop to bring to family events, etc. If I didn’t do all this with a smile or if I had thoughts needs of my own that he didn’t like suddenly I was mentally ill. He felt entitled to this from a girlfriend. It’s absolutely outrageous. I don’t think this is uncommon unfortunately. I appreciate your article, I hope it helps men see what they are doing. Women are justifiably done being everyone’s everything while being ignored and abused.
So, so good. The underlying issues you write about in marriage ring true in the parent-child relationship, as well. The tiny little cuts children experience at the hands of their "loving" parents erodes trust and safety over time. And then parents are left scratching their heads as to why their teens are acting out or their young adult children would prefer to not spend time with them. Humans are fascinating and infuriating, right? Love your work. Thank you!
Middle childhood and youth is the time for humans to learn how to be in reciprocal relationships instead of just constantly being catered to like infants, yet our modern society tells parents and teens that if we parents aren't constantly acting as our child's concierge and ever-validating therapist we're making ourselves unworthy of their ongoing connection and the kids' acting out is justified. I suggest you look into the work of Julie Lythcott-Haims, Lori Gottlieb, Gabor Mate, and Gordon Neufeld (just four whose names come to mind and have influenced how I parent my sons, there are many more whose work I draw from), as well as consider the work of Adam Grant (particularly "Give and Take" and "Think Again"), in how you conceptualize this going forward.
Our job as parents isn't to avoid our children getting emotional skinned knees, it's to teach them that they can tend to, survive, and heal from the inevitable skinned knees. Too few people in the adult generations got that lesson.
I think you missed the foundational point of my response—which is that the tiny cuts children receive (as in infancy through age 7) do accumulate & can lead to disengaged teens &/or young adults. Nothing I said indicated that I believe parents should behave in the way you described, and they certainly shouldn’t behave in harmful ways to their children and then expect them to be around later. ’m actually very familiar with several of the people you mentioned & spent well over a year studying Gabor’s work. I regularly recommend the book he co-wrote with Dr. Neufeld, Hold onto Your Kids, & even wrote an essay about it. ❤️
No, I didn't miss it, I'm coming from being on the other side of it with five children, and watching countless friends I've made over the last 20+ years in Attachment Parenting contexts experience the same rejection from their aging (but not necessarily maturing at the expected rate from the anthropology-based-evidence we used to guide our parenting) children. I'm just advocating for a moderate, temperate pathway that aligns with authoritative parenting without going overboard into the martyrdom (and self-flaggilation) extremes I've watched many parents go into while not building as strong, secure relationships with their emerging-adult children as I've been cultivating in mine (which, at its core, necessitates some NOT gentle challenging of the BS they're inundated with from the culture we swim in).
Is your essay on this site? I'd very much like to read it. In particular, the "peer orientation" concept aspect of "Hold On to Your Kids" is something I'm trying to spread word about in as many spaces as I can, in as many reframings as possible in the hopes that it takes root in many other minds the way it has in mine. I enjoy spreading ideas worth propagating when I encounter them, it eases my intellectual loneliness and enables me to self-regulate better around my children.
Thank you for engaging like this. These kind of interactions are the core of my "why" for being in the comment section. Your generosity with your time is genuinely appreciated.
I'm grateful to you! It's imperative to chat and walk through ideas. I have definitely seen some take the attachment parenting ideas to the extreme, which does children no favors. I'm a believer in parents as leaders/guides not pushovers and/or willy-nilly decision makers who feel nervous to tell their children "no" or put down rules and guardrails. I also think the trauma talk has been way overblown and caused a host of issues in that parents are fearful vs confident. I bet we could go on and on! Here's the link to my essay: https://letemgobarefoot.substack.com/p/should-we-rethink-the-idea-of-friendships
I'll go follow you now :) I am still posting most of my content on Facebook (because I've already built a solid community over there for over a decade) and contemplating whether to move some of it over here. I don't need the income from putting up a paywall on any of it, it's mostly a time management struggle on my end (I'm not just a writer, though that is one of my core identities - fiction and non-fiction projects actively in the works, but I'm also a photographer, fiber artist, 3D designer, and several other hats get swapped around). fb.me/ahmie.yeung is the short link to where I post a lot of public content, including processing through many of these concepts. This substack account is shared with my husband and our children (they all have the ability to log in but most likely 99% of the comments will be me) and I'm using it for the accounts I might possibly become a paid subscriber to so they can engage with the paywalled content as well (and because I prefer to model being transparent with them about what I'm allowing to influence my decisions). I'm a very collaborative person and it brings me comfort to encounter others who are doing work in the world that aligns with what I see as needing doing - it means I can go do the other work that is uniquely mine to do with this life and refer out to other competent sources of guidance.
As a parent of adolescents and emerging adults (eldest will be 21 in a month, secondborn turns 18 at the end of in June, then I also have three more sons younger than those that will be turning 15, 12.5, and 9 before the 18th birthday), I've learned I need to shift from focusing on cultivating their secure attachment with me to coaching them on how to engage with the insecure attachment style types they're encountering in their age cohorts as well as how to mitigate the harm inflicted by the emotionally immature (and worse) adults they'll be encountering in their professional lives. Coaching keeps taking the form of giving them feedback such as "It doesn't matter if your boss is kind and compassionate in their expectations, if you want to stay employed with them you need to respond appropriately and regulate yourself in the moment, then not come home and dump abusively on your family or you'll wind up lonely and miserable. What tools do you have to get you through that, and continue to grow a depth of character that is worthy of the kinds of meaningful connections you want to have? How can I support you staying on that pathway?" Attachment Parenting resources did NOT prepare me for that, and my focus currently is on cultivating those kinds of resources while also developing Stoicism resources that are not male-perspective-centered (even the guys who are doing it well in the modern Stoicism movement have a lot of obliviousness to how their ways do not generalize to people who are doing the work of gestating and lactating for the next generation, so I feel it is my place to provide some of those insights - I've been practicing Stoicism since the mid-1990s as techniques that helped me survive an adolescence full of chronic and debilitating pain from then-undiagnosed hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome with neurological co-morbidities; the Stoicism tools helped me carve out a pathway that now has me thriving in ways I want to make possible for others and that is the core of my work in the world).
I'm looking forward to reading "Sexy But Psycho" by Jessica Taylor, a book all about how society tends to ignore and overlook the abuse of women and then pathologizes them for being angry, upset, or traumatized over the abuse.
Harriett Lerner started the research in this field and her book “Dance of Anger” discusses how society does not allow women any role but “nice lady” or “angry shrew”. Brene hosts her on her podcast and tells Harriet that her books saved her marriage
This is phenomenal. If I had your gift for words, I would have written this as my lived experience. Thank you for seeing me and so many of the women I know.
Thank you for working it in there that it’s perfectly fine to be single. I think the best way for heterosexual people who really do not like, value, understand people of the opposite sex/gender and have no intrinsic motivation to change this have an ethical responsibility to be single and avoid intimate relationships so as not to do harm. It’s working for me anyway.
I operate under the premise that most people will partner up for various reasons (I think it’s demonstrably true mathematically), but yes. Precisely what you said, and I love how you say it.
It’s not only okay to be single, it can be an extraordinary lifestyle, and I’m so confused by men who clearly prefer single living, but choose to marry and then act miserable and behave in ways that result in their partners and children being miserable.
I want people to be their best selves regardless of their lifestyle choices. It’s awesome that you bring so much mindfulness and self-awareness to your decision to be single.
This was really well done, Matthew. I’ve seen first-hand that many times a wife acting “crazy” has to do with a lot of instability in her primary attachment (husband) due to many of the things you addressed. That argument feels like a throw back to the days where wives could be institutionalized for hysteria if their husbands chose to put them there. It takes two. I’m not saying there aren’t legitimate mental health issues at play, but like you mentioned there’s a 93-96% chance there isn’t. And a further uncovering might also show that some of that “mental illness” might be related to treatment in the home. It might not. Great article!
Thank you for speaking about this Matthew! We need more men calling attention to these things, and you've done that very well in this post. Keep up the great work!
I like to call attention to the fact that ALSO cause problems for men in marriage. And, there is the fact that the most common reason for women filing for divorce is feeling "unfulfilled". And that women destroy men in divorce courts everyday. Which is why large numbers of men have walked away from women, dating, and especially marriage.
This is what women have been trying to tell men for eons. We are not crazy or irrational. We are responding to the consistent message we get from Men in our relationships. That we don't matter. And if we get angry in response, we somehow have mental illness. Women are human beings reacting the way a normal human being would react. Nothing crazy or irrational about it.
Reconnecting with your hurt wives or girlfriends will be achieved through slow, trustworthy relational repair work that might not seem very fun to men who believe they’ve done nothing wrong. They must learn how to validate emotional experiences of others, even if they’re confused by them, or outright disagree with them. And they must learn to show up consistently as considerate of their partners relational needs and wants, and demonstrate themselves to be capable of meeting those needs and wants.
____
This is a thoughtful excerpt and it goes both ways. When you love someone you need to learn to stop when it’s too much. No matter what. When you love someone you don’t have to understand to do.
If it’s that bad you can reassess your relationship. But usually it’s just discomfort. Changing habits.
Words work in the beginning but then it’s action only.
I’d love to weaponize sex but that would be punishing me too
This is what happened in my marriage. We are now divorced. This made me feel seen and understood. I'm grateful for finding this page and grateful for all the work you do. Thank you for sharing.
This was a very interesting and significant article. As all good articles do, it both answers questions and raises them. I especially appreciate how you framed the explanation of trust erosion.
I wonder how this relates to the rise in older women divorcing after many years of marriage?
Yes, they can just go see a magistrate, tell the magistrate that they "felt threatened", and walk out with a restraining order. That way they can evict their husbands without Due Process of Law. Then everyone wonders why men are shunning women, dating, and marriage.
If men file for divorce, they will lose everything.
69 yr old Cis female in a previously passionate, now fizzling, 3 yr. relationship .
You nailed it.
All of the micro disappointments, forgotten follow thrus, disinterest in my lived experiences. The consistent reset back to his experiences.
I am the Invisible Woman placed on Earth to serve you. My needs will only be met when in alignment with yours. I am meant to be the ultimate life style accessory and no more.
Here is what I have learned:
Very few people can handle being held accountable for their behavior without rationalizing, blaming, or shutting down.
I'm sorry, Lisa. Thank you for sharing this and for the positive feedback, because these ideas are so important to understand for all of the confused people out there who haven't learned why their relationships and marriages are suffering. Wishing you peace and clarity in your relationship, or in the months and years ahead should you choose a different path.
What I appreciate most about your approach is providing the underlying behavior science. Removing the drama and providing the facts. Well done.
Why do you only point the finger at men for these issues? Have you asked what women do that disappoints men?
Could not be any less interested in what disappoints men
That's okay. You can hug your 10 cats.
lol not fond of them either - let’s just say I have no need to include an “other” in my personal space male or female, cat or dog, into my life experience on a daily basis - walk by chats are sufficient and I dare say necessary
Women undermine their men, as well.. Women can also falsely accuse a man, and have him evicted from the home without due process of law. The author has chosen to disregard the other side of the same coin.
Centuries worth of literature have revolved around "what women do that disappoints men." I grew up thinking that women were mostly to blame for familial and social conflicts, and held onto this belief until I found myself ... uh, in a relationship with a man 20 years older than me who blamed his ex-wife for having ruined their marriage and accused me (19) of being inadequately supportive of him as he grieved him marriage. (Why am I responding to you, tho- your bio says you're a proud "non-feminist" lol)
Perhaps, you could write an article that focuses on that perspective if you feel it’s necessary.
Good idea. But you can on Youtube now and look for "The Happy Wife School". She encourages women to fix their own unhappiness, instead of blaming it on their man. Once that happens, they will be eager to sleep with their husbands
You just described my current relationship.
The issue is our culture tells us that our sense of lack will disappear if only we get the right relationship , experience, identity (made up reductive concepts like cis gender! ) , object or substance. That there is something out there that will make us feel ok inside. It’s a lie and sets everyone up for huge dissatisfaction and an arms race of mutual dissatisfaction.
Have you asked your husband if anything you do turns him off?
many (not all) women are conditioned to base much of their behaviour on what men appear to like, so yeah, I think there's an 89% chance she has asked her husband this question
Let's be honest about what we're missing in these conversations. When women work through abuse and relationship drama, we must confront an uncomfortable reality - these issues are predominantly caused by men. If not her husband, then other men in positions of power, trust, or influence.
The reflexive intellectualization of women's trauma serves a purpose. By abstracting their experiences into theoretical problems, men conveniently:
Distance themselves from responsibility
Avoid examining their own behavior patterns
Escape the discomfort of recognizing systemic harm
Maintain comfortable perspectives that benefit them
Preserve the status quo while appearing thoughtful
This selective analysis - choosing which parts of reality to examine while ignoring uncomfortable systemic patterns - is precisely how patriarchy maintains itself generation after generation.
The true test of intellectual integrity isn't clever rationalization that preserves your comfort. It's the courage to see complete patterns, especially when they implicate systems you benefit from.
When you respond to women's experiences by intellectualizing rather than recognizing patterns, you're not being rational. You're being selectively blind in ways that conveniently maintain your power. True wisdom requires seeing the whole system, not just the parts that don't threaten your worldview.
I couldn't agree more! Many men hide behind the rationality smoke and mirror because their emotional intelligence is still at elementary level. They also tend to care more about what other men think, rather than the women in their lives. The male ego still reigns supreme. What men don't understand is that after years of being subjected to misogyny it's only natural for women to be angry, and by belittling their feelings they're making things worse. Misogyny is rooted in religion as well. Lilith gets booted out of paradise because she is her true, wild, untamed self and won't submit to Adam. Then Eve is made from a male body in the hope of making her compliant. Eve asks important questions and is punishment by a vengeful god. The ancient serpent of wisdom has been turned into a demon. Pure misogyny!
Have you read Women’s Lore by Sarah Clegg? It’s all about that history, it’s so good!
No but thanks for the recommendation!
Men are going MGTOW and shunning man-hating narcissistic feminists.
How are your 10 cats doing today?
I (Ahmie) am a Sociologist and a BoyMom 5 times over (my sons are ages 8-20, 3 academic years between each), and you hit this out of the ballpark from my observations as a social scientist and a mother. My sons are all very liberal, Progressive, embracing of intersectionality (which they had fed into their awareness literally while nursing at my breast - I started working on my Master's when my secondborn was still breastfeeding, got pregnant with my third during orientation week, and my fourth was still exclusively breastfeeding on graduation day), and STILL the ones who are pubescent or older exhibit every single issue you point out under the "men conveniently" heading multiple times per week. I point out that youth is the time for them to practice relationship skills with the few people who will give them abundant grace as they learn to do better, and also that my patience is NOT infinite and that they should NOT expect a person in their life who did not give birth to them to tolerate their behaving in these ways for a significant duration of time without abandoning the relationship. When their father (my life partner of 29 years) turns away from validating my experience as a woman, it gets even worse and my job as a parent gets harder. Working on that is why we're subscribers to Matt's content.
If your sons are falsely accused of rape - and about half of rape accusations are false - your eyes will be opened to the real world. And so will your son's eyes.
Sorry for the belated reply, been busy living an actually awe-inspiring life instead of dwelling in bitterness and resentment.
If my sons are falsely accused of rape, that is beyond our ability to control. What IS within our ability to control is how we comport ourselves publicly and privately. Some of that affects how likely we are to be accused of crimes, and the likelihood of false accusations having ability to harm us.
If we focus on our commitment to having behavior patterns - publicly and privately - that are antithetical to criminal or abusive behaviors then false allegations have less sticking power if/when they come AND we have the ability to legally seek relief for the defamation of our characters.
I haven't been accused of anything as significant as rape, but my character has been defamed pretty significantly. It hurt, and it was a major distraction from what I would have rather have been doing with my time for a while, but it did not ultimately harm my reputation or character in the eyes of those whose opinions actually matter in the grand scheme of things.
THAT is the reality I am trying to prepare my sons to face as they emerge into adulthood, because that is within my spheres of influence and partial control. Is continuing to dwell in the hurt & resentment from wrongs done to you in the past under YOUR control? Can you find what is truly worth learning & holding from that then let the rest become compost while you tend the garden of your life in nourishing ways instead of just cussing at the weeds?
40-60% of rape accusations ate false. For the sake of your sons, try speaking up for men’s issues, and the difficulties they experience in feminist-driven courts that make defense against false accusations difficult.
Men have a higher chance of being raped themselves than being falsely accused. I take ALL rape accusations as fact and adjust my actions accordingly.
So you just like to ignore false accusations? The research has found that about HALF of rape accusations are false. Take the total number of reported rapes, divide by 2, and you have the number of false accusations against men.
Great comments!
Sure, if you like those that blame men for everything.
Hey Frank. Nothing, ever, is one size fits all.
Why be defensive about it? You can be a good guy who has experienced shitty things due to the actions of a woman AND a great many women can have experienced painful things because of men.
All of that can happen at the same time and not cancel each other out.
How about we care about everyone who experiences mistreatment?
And whether you believe it’s true or not, or fair or not, men on the whole demonstrate poor relational skills that result in negative outcomes for women/children/families at a pretty high percentage.
Isn’t it okay to talk about that even if some women do bad things sometimes?
It's because men can't even get dates nowadays. The article even blames men for choosing shitty women while being silent on women choosing men who, which is also part of the same school of attachment theory you use, exactly replicate home dysfunction.
The traits that would make for a stable relationship from a man's position are the ones being selected against. So this article once again becomes shaming the men who are already lonely while doing nothing about women choosing men who are attractive and chaotic. Enough, the dog called "most men" has had enough beating.
You care about everyone that experiences mistreatment by changing the Violence Against Women Act to Intimate Partners Protection Act. Feminists ran with the fraud that only men were domestic abusers, when the research of Straus Steinmetz and Gelles found that women batter men as often as the converse.
Frank, I've seen several of your comments on Matt's content and there's a pattern I'm picking up. You're getting "ratioed." Even though there are several men reading these threads, none of them are liking your content or agreeing with you. You get no "likes," and only a few replies from people who don't just dismissively scroll past. If you're coming to Matt's content for wholehearted reasons to improve your relationships instead of for some kind of righteousness ego feed, perhaps reflect on how your tone is mismatching his or direct your time and attention elsewhere that might be more fulfilling if you don't see the value in what Matt and others are sharing here. (Ahmie)
Many men haven't yet woken up to the frauds of feminism. Go read the Straus, Steinmetz, and Gelles research findings which found that women batter men as often as the converse, Did you know that feminists made death threats against the three? Now you do.
As for the men that haven't yet been red-pilled...just give them a little more time. After they have dealt with man-hating feminists in HR that openly discriminate against men, or learn that there is vastly more funding for breast cancer than prostate cancer, or get thrown in jail after their girlfriend busts their nose.....they will get it then.
You can keep seeking validation of your confirmation bias logical falacies, or you can spend some effort developing more emotional maturity. What you cannot do is dictate how I am going to use my time, or demand attention/affection from others you find appealing just because you feel entitled to it. that isn't gendered, it is adulting and there is no pill color associated with it.
Feminists will grow old alone with their cats.
There are a growing number of women that value and respect men, and echo the issues I have raised. Those are the only women sane men want.
Who speaks about blame? I hear accountability and responsibility.
LIAR !! Women batter m,en as often as the converse. That research goes back to the 1970s
Women batter men as often as the converse. Those findings go back to the 1970s, starting with Straus, Steinmetz and Gelles. The media has covered up that information for the last 50 years. And, feminists made death threats against the three sociologists to try to silence them.
So you want to blame men for everything? Have you considered the damage that many women cause men?
I wasn't aware of blaming men for everything, nor is that my intent. It's not about 'blame'. It's about accountability. And in this conversation, there is a stack of research showing it is predominantly men. And as long as a man says 'It's not all on men', he won't self-reflect where it could be him.
Also, your comments are unhelpful and point the way to the experiences of many women.
Yes, women do damage to men. And this thread is not about that.
You are right, this post only demonized men, and gave women a free pass. I suppose you are fully on board with one-way streets and discussions.
Respond to my other comment, Frank, if you want to have an adult conversation instead of trolling all over. You’re not doing your red-pill side any favors.
Ask the thousands of men I’ve talked to in my coaching and groups every week if I demonize men or “blame” them.
It’s okay for you to feel bad and be mad. It doesn’t make OTHER true things invalid or somehow tainted by feminist research studies.
Frank. This isn’t debatable. Men (numerically speaking as a percentage) demonstrate poor relationship skills which result in a lot of damage to relationships, marriage, and families.
When we start getting into the REALLY ugly stuff like rape, violence, etc, it skews the numbers even worse.
Don’t be weird about this. Other men behaving poorly doesn’t make you a bad person, and doesn’t necessarily prove correct whichever ex wife or girlfriend hurt you so much.
Matthew, are you aware of the research that has found that women batter men as often as the converse? That research goes back to the mid-1970s, starting with the findings of Suzanne Steinmetz, Murray Straus and Richard Gelles. After publishing their findings, the three research sociologists recieved death threats from feminists. So it seems that women have poor relationship skills as often as men do.
My aim to help people have the best possible, most secure relationships capable of lasting a lifetime. It requires two people behaving in ways that foster trust and security and connection with one another.
You don’t have to be of ill character or even do anything “bad” in order for trust to erode between two people.
Everyone is responsible. Everyone.
Of course some women are shithouse relationship partners. But we can’t be talking about physical abuse. OF COURSE that’s abhorrent and borderline unforgivable in relationships. No one should be subject to violence from the people they love.
Relationship conversations in my world don’t revolve around overt abuse, which everyone should agree won’t be tolerated in healthy relationships.
I’m more interested in the nuanced conversations where non-abusers accidentally hurt one another.
In my experience, men do the hurting more often than the their female counterparts. Like 70-80 percent of the time.
We just have to be willing to engage in serious conversations around things that might not appear serious to you and I.
Like the merits of the toilet seat being left up or the dish left by the sink, and whether that’s worthy of people taking seriously and arguing about in their marriages.
The “stack of research” is from feminists. There are other vantage points, such as this one, from a former feminist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vE7YW6HQqw
Gottman Institute - John Gottman... the most recognised and respected research institute on relationships in the world, tens of thousands of couples.
Frank, I know my research. Unless Gottman isn't good enough for you.
Men are more likely to hide their mental illness and deny emotional regulation challenges because our society pressures them to not show perceived weakness. It’s the flip side to the stereotyping about women being prone to moodiness or hysteria. Taking an accurate statistical study of which genders have what frequency of these things is extremely difficult, particularly when about half the populace are unwilling or unable to adequately acknowledge or express their emotional states. Also, those added challenges listed as reasons women might have more frequent mental illnesses or moodiness can also be used to evidence a greater capacity to cope with those challenges that otherwise more harshly impact people who aren’t subject to them. It’s not that we ever lack justification for emotional responses. It’s that people/society views them on a different scale. Systemic misogyny and sexism is systemic. It permeates everything. They should first ask what each person’s definition of mental illness or extreme emotional distress actually is, and what it looks like. Determine if they are even communicating with the same emotional language before taking their self-assessments as accurate for the sake of a statistical analysis. Half the people I know, who are diagnosed with a mental illness, and medicated, don’t really seem as though they are unique in their struggles. Much of it is circumstantial, but also much of it is their interpretation of what society (not medical professionals) defines those terms to mean.
Trust is the baseline for all healthy intimate relationships. Communicating emotions effectively is necessary to maintain them. It’s that simple.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7444121/
Broadly speaking men deny emotions and women fetishise them. Both approaches are daft in their own way
When men speak up about their emotions, they are told to sit down and shut up.
Hey Matthew, this is so great. And then there’s the research from Gottman showing that men are emotional, called ‘flooding’, but deny it’s happening, even to themselves. So as the man gets more ‘logical’ in an argument, it means he’s more flooded and is highly reactive, but thinks he’s the calm one.
Crazy making for the woman, feeling emotional, and knowing the topic is emotional, and he treats it like a logistical exercise in math and logic.
Also, you were on my podcast a while back. I still remember that convo! Trust you’re well!
I remember Remi! I quote you saying "intention does not equal experience" several times per week. Big heart emojis to you. I hope you and your team and your loved ones are very well!
I use it too lol! All are well. I sold the business and stay involved with it coz i love it and the mission.
Let’s do another podcast soon! Our chat was awesome.
Women’s NORMAL response of anger or distance to continued invalidation, dismissal and abuse (verbal & physical) by their partners is pathologized by ‘rational’ men. The unwillingness to be held accountable for how your behavior affects others is at the center of women’s resentment. The disparity of effort from men vs women is extreme. In my last relationship I was his therapist, self esteem booster, logistical manager, sex object, personal trainer, relationship caretaker, girlfriend prop to bring to family events, etc. If I didn’t do all this with a smile or if I had thoughts needs of my own that he didn’t like suddenly I was mentally ill. He felt entitled to this from a girlfriend. It’s absolutely outrageous. I don’t think this is uncommon unfortunately. I appreciate your article, I hope it helps men see what they are doing. Women are justifiably done being everyone’s everything while being ignored and abused.
So, so good. The underlying issues you write about in marriage ring true in the parent-child relationship, as well. The tiny little cuts children experience at the hands of their "loving" parents erodes trust and safety over time. And then parents are left scratching their heads as to why their teens are acting out or their young adult children would prefer to not spend time with them. Humans are fascinating and infuriating, right? Love your work. Thank you!
Middle childhood and youth is the time for humans to learn how to be in reciprocal relationships instead of just constantly being catered to like infants, yet our modern society tells parents and teens that if we parents aren't constantly acting as our child's concierge and ever-validating therapist we're making ourselves unworthy of their ongoing connection and the kids' acting out is justified. I suggest you look into the work of Julie Lythcott-Haims, Lori Gottlieb, Gabor Mate, and Gordon Neufeld (just four whose names come to mind and have influenced how I parent my sons, there are many more whose work I draw from), as well as consider the work of Adam Grant (particularly "Give and Take" and "Think Again"), in how you conceptualize this going forward.
Our job as parents isn't to avoid our children getting emotional skinned knees, it's to teach them that they can tend to, survive, and heal from the inevitable skinned knees. Too few people in the adult generations got that lesson.
I think you missed the foundational point of my response—which is that the tiny cuts children receive (as in infancy through age 7) do accumulate & can lead to disengaged teens &/or young adults. Nothing I said indicated that I believe parents should behave in the way you described, and they certainly shouldn’t behave in harmful ways to their children and then expect them to be around later. ’m actually very familiar with several of the people you mentioned & spent well over a year studying Gabor’s work. I regularly recommend the book he co-wrote with Dr. Neufeld, Hold onto Your Kids, & even wrote an essay about it. ❤️
No, I didn't miss it, I'm coming from being on the other side of it with five children, and watching countless friends I've made over the last 20+ years in Attachment Parenting contexts experience the same rejection from their aging (but not necessarily maturing at the expected rate from the anthropology-based-evidence we used to guide our parenting) children. I'm just advocating for a moderate, temperate pathway that aligns with authoritative parenting without going overboard into the martyrdom (and self-flaggilation) extremes I've watched many parents go into while not building as strong, secure relationships with their emerging-adult children as I've been cultivating in mine (which, at its core, necessitates some NOT gentle challenging of the BS they're inundated with from the culture we swim in).
Is your essay on this site? I'd very much like to read it. In particular, the "peer orientation" concept aspect of "Hold On to Your Kids" is something I'm trying to spread word about in as many spaces as I can, in as many reframings as possible in the hopes that it takes root in many other minds the way it has in mine. I enjoy spreading ideas worth propagating when I encounter them, it eases my intellectual loneliness and enables me to self-regulate better around my children.
Thank you for engaging like this. These kind of interactions are the core of my "why" for being in the comment section. Your generosity with your time is genuinely appreciated.
I'm grateful to you! It's imperative to chat and walk through ideas. I have definitely seen some take the attachment parenting ideas to the extreme, which does children no favors. I'm a believer in parents as leaders/guides not pushovers and/or willy-nilly decision makers who feel nervous to tell their children "no" or put down rules and guardrails. I also think the trauma talk has been way overblown and caused a host of issues in that parents are fearful vs confident. I bet we could go on and on! Here's the link to my essay: https://letemgobarefoot.substack.com/p/should-we-rethink-the-idea-of-friendships
I'll go follow you now :) I am still posting most of my content on Facebook (because I've already built a solid community over there for over a decade) and contemplating whether to move some of it over here. I don't need the income from putting up a paywall on any of it, it's mostly a time management struggle on my end (I'm not just a writer, though that is one of my core identities - fiction and non-fiction projects actively in the works, but I'm also a photographer, fiber artist, 3D designer, and several other hats get swapped around). fb.me/ahmie.yeung is the short link to where I post a lot of public content, including processing through many of these concepts. This substack account is shared with my husband and our children (they all have the ability to log in but most likely 99% of the comments will be me) and I'm using it for the accounts I might possibly become a paid subscriber to so they can engage with the paywalled content as well (and because I prefer to model being transparent with them about what I'm allowing to influence my decisions). I'm a very collaborative person and it brings me comfort to encounter others who are doing work in the world that aligns with what I see as needing doing - it means I can go do the other work that is uniquely mine to do with this life and refer out to other competent sources of guidance.
As a parent of adolescents and emerging adults (eldest will be 21 in a month, secondborn turns 18 at the end of in June, then I also have three more sons younger than those that will be turning 15, 12.5, and 9 before the 18th birthday), I've learned I need to shift from focusing on cultivating their secure attachment with me to coaching them on how to engage with the insecure attachment style types they're encountering in their age cohorts as well as how to mitigate the harm inflicted by the emotionally immature (and worse) adults they'll be encountering in their professional lives. Coaching keeps taking the form of giving them feedback such as "It doesn't matter if your boss is kind and compassionate in their expectations, if you want to stay employed with them you need to respond appropriately and regulate yourself in the moment, then not come home and dump abusively on your family or you'll wind up lonely and miserable. What tools do you have to get you through that, and continue to grow a depth of character that is worthy of the kinds of meaningful connections you want to have? How can I support you staying on that pathway?" Attachment Parenting resources did NOT prepare me for that, and my focus currently is on cultivating those kinds of resources while also developing Stoicism resources that are not male-perspective-centered (even the guys who are doing it well in the modern Stoicism movement have a lot of obliviousness to how their ways do not generalize to people who are doing the work of gestating and lactating for the next generation, so I feel it is my place to provide some of those insights - I've been practicing Stoicism since the mid-1990s as techniques that helped me survive an adolescence full of chronic and debilitating pain from then-undiagnosed hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome with neurological co-morbidities; the Stoicism tools helped me carve out a pathway that now has me thriving in ways I want to make possible for others and that is the core of my work in the world).
I'm looking forward to reading "Sexy But Psycho" by Jessica Taylor, a book all about how society tends to ignore and overlook the abuse of women and then pathologizes them for being angry, upset, or traumatized over the abuse.
Harriett Lerner started the research in this field and her book “Dance of Anger” discusses how society does not allow women any role but “nice lady” or “angry shrew”. Brene hosts her on her podcast and tells Harriet that her books saved her marriage
This is phenomenal. If I had your gift for words, I would have written this as my lived experience. Thank you for seeing me and so many of the women I know.
♥️
Thank you for working it in there that it’s perfectly fine to be single. I think the best way for heterosexual people who really do not like, value, understand people of the opposite sex/gender and have no intrinsic motivation to change this have an ethical responsibility to be single and avoid intimate relationships so as not to do harm. It’s working for me anyway.
I operate under the premise that most people will partner up for various reasons (I think it’s demonstrably true mathematically), but yes. Precisely what you said, and I love how you say it.
It’s not only okay to be single, it can be an extraordinary lifestyle, and I’m so confused by men who clearly prefer single living, but choose to marry and then act miserable and behave in ways that result in their partners and children being miserable.
I want people to be their best selves regardless of their lifestyle choices. It’s awesome that you bring so much mindfulness and self-awareness to your decision to be single.
Thanks for sharing here.
This was really well done, Matthew. I’ve seen first-hand that many times a wife acting “crazy” has to do with a lot of instability in her primary attachment (husband) due to many of the things you addressed. That argument feels like a throw back to the days where wives could be institutionalized for hysteria if their husbands chose to put them there. It takes two. I’m not saying there aren’t legitimate mental health issues at play, but like you mentioned there’s a 93-96% chance there isn’t. And a further uncovering might also show that some of that “mental illness” might be related to treatment in the home. It might not. Great article!
Thank you for speaking about this Matthew! We need more men calling attention to these things, and you've done that very well in this post. Keep up the great work!
I like to call attention to the fact that ALSO cause problems for men in marriage. And, there is the fact that the most common reason for women filing for divorce is feeling "unfulfilled". And that women destroy men in divorce courts everyday. Which is why large numbers of men have walked away from women, dating, and especially marriage.
This is what women have been trying to tell men for eons. We are not crazy or irrational. We are responding to the consistent message we get from Men in our relationships. That we don't matter. And if we get angry in response, we somehow have mental illness. Women are human beings reacting the way a normal human being would react. Nothing crazy or irrational about it.
THIS!
Reconnecting with your hurt wives or girlfriends will be achieved through slow, trustworthy relational repair work that might not seem very fun to men who believe they’ve done nothing wrong. They must learn how to validate emotional experiences of others, even if they’re confused by them, or outright disagree with them. And they must learn to show up consistently as considerate of their partners relational needs and wants, and demonstrate themselves to be capable of meeting those needs and wants.
____
This is a thoughtful excerpt and it goes both ways. When you love someone you need to learn to stop when it’s too much. No matter what. When you love someone you don’t have to understand to do.
If it’s that bad you can reassess your relationship. But usually it’s just discomfort. Changing habits.
Words work in the beginning but then it’s action only.
I’d love to weaponize sex but that would be punishing me too
This is what happened in my marriage. We are now divorced. This made me feel seen and understood. I'm grateful for finding this page and grateful for all the work you do. Thank you for sharing.
This was a very interesting and significant article. As all good articles do, it both answers questions and raises them. I especially appreciate how you framed the explanation of trust erosion.
I wonder how this relates to the rise in older women divorcing after many years of marriage?
Thanks for a very illuminating read.
Older women divorcing: they no longer have to put up with it for the kids' sake.
Yes, they can just go see a magistrate, tell the magistrate that they "felt threatened", and walk out with a restraining order. That way they can evict their husbands without Due Process of Law. Then everyone wonders why men are shunning women, dating, and marriage.
If men file for divorce, they will lose everything.
You play the victim so well.
I like your approach!