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John Riley's avatar

Thanks for your comments on the group sessions, which I am curious about but haven't yet worked up the courage to commit to.

I would encourage Jeri and everyone here to, if you haven't already, read This is How Your Marriage Ends. I've read many psychology books on relationships, but Matthew's book is by far the most practical and helpful I've read regarding the nature of long-term relationships. If you've already read it, wait a year or so and read it again. I admit to being put off by the title initially--why would I want to read about how my marriage ENDS?--but the title is perfect once you've read the book. The best thing I can say is that at times it seemed like the author had been a fly on the wall in our home witnessing our interactions, discussions, and arguments. In the end it is encouraging to know that our "issues" are hardly unique, and are in fact shared by countless other well-meaning couples. Matthew, I'm sorry to hear about a financial crisis--that sounds very stressful. You have helped so many people, myself included, and I wish you continued and lasting success, which you certainly deserve.

Ahmie Yeung & Family's avatar

I attend the Friday sessions (which are all genders) and my husband Garvin attends Mondays (men only) and Fridays during his planning period (he's a high school teacher). Garvin has been attending since the end of last school year, I was attending every other Friday during the summer (I had another Zoom in the same time window that met every other Friday), and the psychological nourishment that I get from the group is such that I will now not allow myself to be double-booked during the Friday sessions.

It's completely okay to come and just listen -- that's often what my husband is doing. Let Matthew know if that's how you want to engage, and he won't prod you to speak. It's been really reinforcing, in productive ways for our relationship, for my husband to hear other long-married guys going through struggles just as difficult (and sometimes even more intense) as we've been going through, even when the situations are very different (our struggles are primarily around being a 3 generation multicultural home, with elder care for his not-English-fluent parents and our five sons emerging into increasing independence while we've been dealing with home remodel stress since autumn of 2019).

I managed to grab a minute of Garvin's time before he left for work just now, and took dictation on his perspective:

"It's pretty low stakes. The group is very friendly and welcoming to new people. If you want to hear about people struggling with their problems with their spouses, this is the place to go. The Monday meeting is constructive. We have people in different phases of struggles with their sppouses, and we're okay with people being off-screen and listening. You'll be invited to introduce yourself, and we hope that you will find the group safe to share whatever you're struggling with."

Garvin says to personally extend his wish to see you on Monday, and I will be glad to see you if you come into the meeting on Friday (I'm usually there beginning to end, though my attention is sometimes very fragmented as our 4th son is a virtual/asynchronous learner who isn't staying on task very well with his curriculum lately).

Ahmie Yeung & Family's avatar

Oh, and as a voracious consumer of psychology and social science books, I 100% agree with the distinctive qualities of Matthew's work that make it more effective than the ones written by academic experts with some audiences. The fact that he's NOT a professionally certified subject-area expert referencing others of the same subpopulation, flying along observing all of us as a forest without seeing the individual trees (or only seeing the BIG trees and none of the struggling saplings trying to break through the shadows) is absolutely core to what I find so exceptionally valuable about his work.

I'm listening to multiple related audiobooks right now (switching depending on who I'm sharing audiological space with): "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk -- far too intense when my youngest is around and sometimes too intense for Garvin; "The Myth of Normal" by father/son duo Gabor & Daniel Maté which I feel is good for my emerging-adolescent sons to be hearing even as sometimes it is a bit intense; Scott Galloway's "Notes on Being a Man" which is important normalization of some of this as my sons are emerging into adulthood; and Brené Brown's "Strong Ground" in my alone time. I'm also a practicing Stoic, and have been for more than 30 years. Matthew's work is FAR more resonant with people who aren't frequent consumers of this kind of content, BECAUSE he's coming from a more similar vantage point than the ivory tower academic types. The college professor who is the reason that my children are all named after U.S. Presidents (Professor Grover Cleveland Gilmore) told me that I was already analyzing the world at the level of someone who had earned a doctorate back in my last semester of undergrad, but my disabilities have thrown too many wrenches into the logistics to earn one in the 26 years since that conversation; I've only managed to get to the Master's degree level which has my perspective disregarded in some contexts where I'm trying to develop my work to a higher level of rigorous feedback. If I manage to finally earn that doctorate, I hope I still manage to be as in touch with the daily struggles of my neighbors the way Matthew has demonstrated. I worry that I might become more ivory tower dweller and lose sight of the roots that need tending with the kind of skill Matthew demonstrates. My social sciences specialization is in socialization processes, and I want to keep being influenced most heavily by people like Matthew, not like doctorate holders such as my graduate level Sociological Theory professor (who insisted on deep-diving into Marx's writings but refused to give even a few minutes of classtime discussion to the Occupy movement that was in ongoing gathering a quarter mile away from campus that semester - dude seriously had his head up his rectum in ways that damaged the learning of his students).

Jennifer Yell's avatar

Always real truth that resonates deeply.

Jeri's avatar

This is great, but I signed up (and paid) for a newsletter that I haven't been receiving. It's hard for me to think about taking advice from someone who does not live up to his promises.

Matthew Fray's avatar

1. Thank you for supporting my work.

2. I can't figure out what promise I've made to you that I've not lived up to as I don't think we've ever spoken or had written correspondence, but I'd love to understand it for the purposes of making it right.

3. I will NEVER ask anyone to "take my advice." I'm here to help people in relationships (usually men) eliminate blind spots and restore trust in their relationships, which is what I spend every day doing. I offer an alternative to whatever they might be doing now. Not some authoritative approach that implies I have all of the answers. I don't. I just have some of them, but it's a pretty good start for beginners.

I experienced an unexpected income loss and personal financial crisis starting early in the summer, and I've spent the past several weeks and months making sure I could pay bills and buy food. I've since solved the problem. If the time I spent away from writing here and tending to that is what you're referring to, I'm really sorry. I needed to be away. I think I'm back now.

Ahmie Yeung & Family's avatar

Pretty sure the "promise" is the one implied by the posting schedule you had before the income loss, just to try to help clarify. Jeri please correct me if I am wrong. My husband has been attending the 2x/week group sessions since right around when Matthew has the income loss (and I attend the all genders ones on Fridays when I don't have a schedule conflict). I can say with all the certainty possible about another human being that Matthew is absolutely genuine and ernest in his efforts. He is doing the best he can with the resources (including time) he has available to share, and my marriage has been improved by the influence of him and the others in the groups on my husband. Normalizing that it involves struggle, even in long-lasting marriages that look like good ones from the outside, has been absolutely pivotal in turning things in a wonderful direction in my household.

Matthew Fray's avatar

That’s really kind of you to say, Ahmie. Thank you.

Ahmie Yeung & Family's avatar

It is the honest truth from my perspective. Interacting with you, and others in the group, improves me AND my marriage. I wish I could get more people access to the kind of contexts you create, as I have mentioned more than a few times via Zoom.