I find it hard to believe that you seriously think I’m advocating for people in relationships to do whatever the other person tells them to, as if that’s legit advice for healthy relationships.
Most people don’t “put themselves first” in some super-asshole selfish kind of way. Most people are fairly cool.
What happens is we don’t think about the other person at all. We literally don’t consider the different way they experience things. And when we do that, we default to treating what matters to us with importance and care, and we largely ignore what matters to the other person if we’re not thinking about it.
This forces them to mention it. Then it typically results in people (usually men) acting criticized and defensive.
Trust erodes. It’s a bad pattern.
The alternative is to be someone who thinks about how our behavior impacts those around us. Even when we’re not doing anything intentionally harmful.
It’s literally the difference between low-conflict relationships with trust, and the ones most people have.
I think you missed my point. I didn't say that you were advocating for people to do that. I said the guy in your examples was doing that.
What I meant was that the guys in these situations don't take on a leadership role. They're asking for help or directions every step of the way rather than just taking ownership of some area and doing it how they want it to be done, and then if she criticizes him, telling her he has it under control. It's like they are acting like employees and not leaders or equal partners.
I did miss it. It was 3:30 am for me, and I apologize. Not that you want or need any agreements or endorsements from me, but yes, without rereading this and thinking about the examples more, I’m sure that’s fair criticism.
Please excuse my slowness.
What you’re describing happens a lot. It develops a parent-child-like relationship at the house in terms of domestic labor (usually with mom doing most of the thinking and doing and task management).
Sex and intimacy suffers dramatically as a result.
Thank you for writing back, clarifying what you meant, and spelling it out for my not-particularly-sharp brain.
It's approval-seeking, is what it is - like they desperately want her approval, want to please her, want to do things for her, instead of being in charge of their own lives.
I think perhaps you are commenting on the wrong article. Matt describes multiple situations where the dude expected a positive response to half-assing things that a grown adult of any gender who has been in interpersonal relationships should reasonably be expected to be competent enough to do.
As a mom of several sons, and a Sociologist, I know where we women are going wrong in much of this. It isn't as your wives, it is as your mothers. As a culture, we expect (and subconsciously cultivate) less conscientiousness in our sons than our daughters. This is also why, on average, female students are blowing male students out of the water.
If we want boys to be able to hold their own and be competitive in the world as adults, we need to be teaching them conscientiousness from early ages. Stop allowing weaponized incompetence to get them out of their fair share of the workload in their own homes.
Developing some actual coping skills and learning to take unpleasant feedback would also generalize into many ways their lives would be more successful, not just in romantic/sexual relationships.
General observation. Expecting to NOT get unpleasant feedback after "completing" a task that is not, in fact, complete to the standard of the person who needed the task done is not appropriately mature behavior for a romantic relationship. He clearly expected to NOT get UNpleasant feedback, which could be interpreted as getting a "positive response" particularly when there is avoidant attachment issues in play.
Well, in general, spouses should be kind to each other. And I really object to your framing, which makes it sound like she is her boss and it's appropriate for her to set standards and criticize him for not meeting those standards. That is not appropriate at all. It's disrespectful. She should address him as an equal and an adult, not your subordinate.
Thank you ☺️
♥️
Thank you!
Here's the problem. The guy in your examples isn't putting himself first. He's acting like the wife is his boss, giving him instructions.
That just makes the problem worse, because he's lowering himself, which makes her less attracted.
I find it hard to believe that you seriously think I’m advocating for people in relationships to do whatever the other person tells them to, as if that’s legit advice for healthy relationships.
Most people don’t “put themselves first” in some super-asshole selfish kind of way. Most people are fairly cool.
What happens is we don’t think about the other person at all. We literally don’t consider the different way they experience things. And when we do that, we default to treating what matters to us with importance and care, and we largely ignore what matters to the other person if we’re not thinking about it.
This forces them to mention it. Then it typically results in people (usually men) acting criticized and defensive.
Trust erodes. It’s a bad pattern.
The alternative is to be someone who thinks about how our behavior impacts those around us. Even when we’re not doing anything intentionally harmful.
It’s literally the difference between low-conflict relationships with trust, and the ones most people have.
I think you missed my point. I didn't say that you were advocating for people to do that. I said the guy in your examples was doing that.
What I meant was that the guys in these situations don't take on a leadership role. They're asking for help or directions every step of the way rather than just taking ownership of some area and doing it how they want it to be done, and then if she criticizes him, telling her he has it under control. It's like they are acting like employees and not leaders or equal partners.
I did miss it. It was 3:30 am for me, and I apologize. Not that you want or need any agreements or endorsements from me, but yes, without rereading this and thinking about the examples more, I’m sure that’s fair criticism.
Please excuse my slowness.
What you’re describing happens a lot. It develops a parent-child-like relationship at the house in terms of domestic labor (usually with mom doing most of the thinking and doing and task management).
Sex and intimacy suffers dramatically as a result.
Thank you for writing back, clarifying what you meant, and spelling it out for my not-particularly-sharp brain.
No worries.
It's approval-seeking, is what it is - like they desperately want her approval, want to please her, want to do things for her, instead of being in charge of their own lives.
I think perhaps you are commenting on the wrong article. Matt describes multiple situations where the dude expected a positive response to half-assing things that a grown adult of any gender who has been in interpersonal relationships should reasonably be expected to be competent enough to do.
As a mom of several sons, and a Sociologist, I know where we women are going wrong in much of this. It isn't as your wives, it is as your mothers. As a culture, we expect (and subconsciously cultivate) less conscientiousness in our sons than our daughters. This is also why, on average, female students are blowing male students out of the water.
If we want boys to be able to hold their own and be competitive in the world as adults, we need to be teaching them conscientiousness from early ages. Stop allowing weaponized incompetence to get them out of their fair share of the workload in their own homes.
Developing some actual coping skills and learning to take unpleasant feedback would also generalize into many ways their lives would be more successful, not just in romantic/sexual relationships.
Can you explain? When did he expect a positive response to "half-assing" it?
General observation. Expecting to NOT get unpleasant feedback after "completing" a task that is not, in fact, complete to the standard of the person who needed the task done is not appropriately mature behavior for a romantic relationship. He clearly expected to NOT get UNpleasant feedback, which could be interpreted as getting a "positive response" particularly when there is avoidant attachment issues in play.
Clear now?
Well, in general, spouses should be kind to each other. And I really object to your framing, which makes it sound like she is her boss and it's appropriate for her to set standards and criticize him for not meeting those standards. That is not appropriate at all. It's disrespectful. She should address him as an equal and an adult, not your subordinate.